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posted by: TheJongleur (reply) post date: 07.17.05 (3:34 pm) I know we have talked about it.. and commented about it.. But thank you for writing.. and for writing as you have. And.. Thank you for the bird update. posted by: juniperflux (reply) post date: 07.17.05 (3:39 pm) Reply to: TheJongleur My words + your pictures = pretty good stuff, I think. I needed to write about this... thanks for tackling it too. As for the birds... soon, they'll fly the nest and I'll worry. But not nearly as much as I did about the turtle(s). posted by: lindy (reply) post date: 07.17.05 (3:47 pm) Good grief! I got lost in Zack's blog. Man, it's too bad Brennan isn't interested in girls. I'd be willing to overlook the obvious age gap to get to know him a little better! What a brilliant thinker. I'm feeling a false sense of comfort in having read Zack's blog and finding him to be a young man of strong conviction. He is most assuredly going through all kinds of junk at that joke of a camp, but I suspect he is going to pull through and eventually embrace who he is, though it may take a while. Obviously, you know I am disgusted by what I read in that article. I tried to read as much as I could of the rules posted, but it was essentially like reading the bible, with additional prison rules thrown in for good measure. Juni, if you need to direct your anger, frustration and sorrow at any of them, my vote is for the parents. I'd rather end my own life than try to impose such on my children's lives. It is so obvious that these extreme measures are being taken due to an embarrassment felt by the parents, as if they have somehow failed to produce a 'successful' young adult, as if their childrens' gayness is some kind of reflection on themselves. It makes me sick to my stomach that they can't see this and can not let their children grow into who they were born to be. It looks like this camp pits extreme Christians against everyone else. I wonder what atrocities will have to surface as a result of that camp before anyone feels the need to step in and do something about it. Mrs. Finch's family is looking lovely. She must be so pleased. :) posted by: therealspartacus007 (reply) post date: 07.18.05 (5:40 pm) Yea, I read about it on MySpace. I have to tell you, any group who bans Bach and having personal conversations with one's mother isn't the sort I want to join. This seems even worse than the LDS's MTC. posted by: juniperflux (reply) post date: 07.18.05 (10:57 pm) Reply to: therealspartacus007 Yes. I would have to agree... both of those rules are kind of fishy. Unfortunately, I can't help but think there are far more sinister things going on here. Thanks for stopping by. j posted by: BerlinBear (reply) post date: 07.19.05 (11:45 am) Utterly repulsive. I can't muster anything more than contempt and pity both for the parents and the people running the camp. As I said over at tJ's, it seems like one step forward (gay marriage in Canada and Spain) two steps back (this shit). I despair. I feel a spit in disgust coming on. Grrrrr. posted by: juniperflux (reply) post date: 07.19.05 (11:27 pm) Reply to: BerlinBear I think one of the worst parts about it for me has been the feeling of utter helpslessness that has accompanied reading about this. Every article I read ends with the same sentiment: no laws have been broken... parents sign their kids up for this... no one is being held against their will. Like I said... it's all throwing punches in the air. *sigh* posted by: jennjr (reply) post date: 07.22.05 (5:06 am) I've read this story before, and frankly, it scares the hell out of me. I have trouble understand a lot of things about the whole situation. I have trouble understanding how we could live in a 21st century world, and still think that we can (quite literally) scare kids straight. I have trouble thinking that we call ourselves "civilized" and we'd WANT to try. I have trouble understanding how a parent can be so desparate to "fix" their child that they completely lost sight of the big picture and instead are inflicting way more harm than good. I can only hope that Zack, who seems to have his wits about him, will be able to someday overcome the horror of the whole situation, and find a way to right some of the wrongs that were inflicted upon him. I hope his parents can get the help that they so obviously need. And your little birdies are getting so big! posted by: juniperflux (reply) post date: 07.22.05 (5:45 am) Reply to: jennjr Jenn... you have really hit the nail on the head with your assessment of a parent's need to "fix" their child. It's sad, really... sad and terrifying. Being an teenager is hard enough, isn't it? Didn't we all struggle, at least a little, with loathing ourselves and those lovely bits of who we are that make us different from everyone else? I just find it difficult to understand parents who would want to feed those kinds of doubts by sending their child to a place whose entire purpose is to point out that who they are is abhorrent and needs to be changed. What kind of parent wants their child to struggle with that kind of negative self-image? Like you, I'm hopeful that Zack will make it through to the other side ok. But what about all the others? *sigh* j posted by: jennjr (reply) post date: 07.22.05 (12:41 pm) Reply to: juniperflux I guess, in like in Zack's case, we hope for the best. It scares me to think that these parents are doing this out of love for their children. I can almost construe somemisguided parents logic on this, too: They're so afraid of how little Jimmy or Suzie will be treated as a gay/lesbian out in the world that they want to try to fix the behavior to try to give them a better life, without having to face the ridicule or the stigma that comes with an "alternative lifestyle." It's just that, well, they've missed the point and are causing their children who are struggling with their sexul identity to feel like even more of a "freak" or "reject" than they already feel like. I believe that deep down, the parents intentions were good; they were acting out of a fear bone of love, but you know the phrase as well as I do: the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I guess the very best scenario we could hope for is that one of these kids comes out of this camp so inspired that they start a camp of their own to de-program these kids. posted by: juniperflux (reply) post date: 07.24.05 (1:08 pm) There's definitely some truth to what you've said here, Jenn... but I'm afraid I don't give the parents and their intentions quite as much credit as you do. TheJongleur and I had a lengthy discussion about this very thing and I agreed with his opinion that parents who would go to the extreme of placing their children in a programming camp for upwards of several months are motivated by more than simply wanting their child to not suffer in an anti-gay world/country. Seems a little like cutting out your child's tongue in order to prevent him from having a lisp. Of course, I don't have children, so my perspective may be, admittedly, a bit skewed. That said, Lindy has suggested writing to our legislators in the hopes that maybe enough of a public outcry about such places might force the proprietors to close their doors. However, given that ours is a country that sited keeping gay couples from being able to wed as a more important issue than the war in Iraq during the last presidential election, I'm afraid I'm not too hopeful. As always, thanks for stopping by and leaving your thoughts. j |
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